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Thread: FLIF - Free Lossless Image Format

  1. #151
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    Thanks for your answer.

    I didn't think about replacing Rawzor image compression with FLIF. In practical use, FLIF is much too slow (2 minutes are needed to compress a single Sony A55 image).
    But Flifraw could use other codecs - in my opinion PPMd or LZAri variants would be better than Rawzor and compression would be fast.

    I would be interested in your .arw recompressor using 7z instead of Flif.

  2. #152
    Administrator Shelwien's Avatar
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    > In practical use, FLIF is much too slow

    Actually flif has options. Eg. you can specify -E1 to make it faster - but compression gets worse.
    Although half of the time in flifraw script is taken by imagemagick convert...

    > in my opinion PPMd or LZAri variants would be better than Rawzor and compression would be fast

    Rawzor doesn't support .arw, so I guess they would :)
    Otherwise its a pretty bad idea to use general-purpose codecs for image compression.
    7z at least has a delta filter and lp/pb parameters.

    As to rawzor, I think its a custom CM, something like bmp models in paq - so its compression level afair is fairly good.

    > I would be interested in your .arw recompressor using 7z instead of Flif.

    No problem. No new filters here, though. Also 7z isn't that much faster than flif - you're forgetting that these images are 32M+
    while optimized lzma can be easily 1Mb/s or such.

    http://nishi.dreamhosters.com/u/7z-arw_v0.7z
    Code:
                     original   7z-arw_v0  flifraw_v1 .7z
    sony.arw         17,039,360 15,050,967 13,445,690 16,129,782
    sony_a77_08.arw  25,329,664 20,676,874 18,061,351 23,737,095
    sony_a99_04.arw  25,100,288 20,327,460 17,572,724 22,667,169
    DSC0891.ARW      16,502,398  9,921,133  7,895,511 10,562,778
    DSC0904.ARW      17,189,944 13,524,219 11,364,545 14,640,295
    DSC0911.ARW      17,463,526 14,832,329 13,140,096 16,462,461
    DSC1869.ARW      16,908,288 12,621,845 10,826,089 15,227,270
    DSC2032.ARW      16,941,056 13,578,957 12,007,329 14,375,145
    DSC2927.ARW      16,973,824  9,942,475  8,119,814 10,754,117
    DSC2936.ARW      16,809,984  9,731,750  7,664,383  9,862,236
    DSC3015.ARW      16,973,824 12,988,568 11,262,998 15,170,738
    DSC3019.ARW      16,941,056 12,909,060 11,330,784 14,889,526
    DSC3039.ARW      16,842,752 12,397,132 10,526,386 14,248,372
    DSC3076.ARW      17,006,592 12,358,212 10,957,297 14,823,684
    DSC3226.ARW      16,908,288 12,860,972 11,272,155 13,705,893
    DSC3342.ARW      17,072,128 13,974,953 12,203,193 15,540,122
    DSC3399.ARW      17,301,504 15,612,596 13,915,366 16,753,907
    DSC3400.ARW      17,334,272 15,104,852 13,350,463 16,330,171
    DSC3414.ARW      16,809,984 13,310,225 11,371,091 14,555,350
    DSC3475.ARW      17,006,592 13,318,083 11,550,966 15,121,539
    DSC3584.ARW      16,744,448  8,686,576  6,536,936  9,237,858

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  6. #154
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    http://nishi.dreamhosters.com/u/flifraw_v1a.7z

    Updated it with flif 0.2 .exe (in archive), but somehow results are all the same (+1 byte all files).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelwien View Post
    http://nishi.dreamhosters.com/u/flifraw_v1a.7z

    Updated it with flif 0.2 .exe (in archive), but somehow results are all the same (+1 byte all files).

    I am not sure, but i am assuming on compression level didn't change much, rather the version update reason is based on licence change.

  8. #156
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by load View Post
    just throw the libflif.dll into the xnview plugin folder, xnview can now read AND save FLIF files.
    Thanks for compiling the plugin, but trying it I ran into two problems:

    1. It's outdated and isn't based on the recent flif 0.2 code

    2. We couldn't persuade XnView(MP) to *read* flif: http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopi...134792#p134784

    It would be nice to get an updated dll as the one from XnView's author doesn't work at all

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelwien View Post
    Updated it with flif 0.2 .exe (in archive), but somehow results are all the same (+1 byte all files).
    Now if you'd adapt this to compress generic .dng raw files, lots of more people could use it and it would give flif a big push...

  9. #157
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    in xnview classic, both reading and saving works using the newest libflif.dll 0.2.0

    i haven't read about it, but it seems the different FLIF versions are incompatible, the newest viewflif itself isn't able to read older .flifs... and vice versa.

  10. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by load View Post
    in xnview classic, both reading and saving works using the newest libflif.dll 0.2.0
    Indeed it does, it even works in MP x86 - only MP x64 fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by load View Post
    i haven't read about it, but it seems the different FLIF versions are incompatible, the newest viewflif itself isn't able to read older .flifs... and vice versa.
    That's correct, I wish the release would have had a red blinking "incompatible" warining sign to avoid confusion.

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    mp x64 fails because in fact WIN64_FLIF_0.2.0 are win32 binaries...

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    here's a GCC compile that should work in mp x64.

    however, mp 0.83 seems to have a bug, the saved file has 0 bytes, but the real filecan be found in thee program's dir and is called C.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by load View Post
    here's a GCC compile that should work in mp x64.
    Thanks a lot! Even with the bug (which I can reproduce) at least there's flif read support with x64 XnViewMP. Some mainstream apps tracking the flif development should give the format a push as an oss and patent-free codec is always welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by load View Post
    however, mp 0.83 seems to have a bug, the saved file has 0 bytes, but the real filecan be found in thee program's dir and is called C.
    ... reported to the XnView bugs subforum: http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33897 ... and solved in the upcoming 0.84 release.
    Last edited by Marsu42; 11th October 2016 at 14:30.

  14. #162
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    Exiftool now supports flif metadata reading, it would be nice if Phil Harvey would get a spec to implement write support: http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/...l/history.html

    Edit: He did ... http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/...ames/FLIF.html
    Last edited by Marsu42; 1st November 2016 at 10:22.

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    FLIF v0.2.2

    jonsneyers released this 9 days ago · 6 commits to master since this release

    Changes since 0.2.0:

    More robust decoder (malicious input crashes fixed)
    Better lossy encoding (in terms of DSSIM/bpp curve)

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    FLIF v0.3 changelog:


    - fix bug in ColorBuckets+animation, this was a bitstream-breaking bug
    - fix bug in unsorted PaletteAlpha (encoder was encoding the palette incorrectly)
    - new option --keep-palette; significantly lower memory footprint for 8-bit palette images
    - libflif: direct support for palette (UNTESTED, PROBABLY BUGGY!)
    - new option --chroma-subsample (produces a truncated 4:2:0 FLIF)

  17. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceship9876 View Post
    FLIF v0.3 changelog:


    - fix bug in ColorBuckets+animation, this was a bitstream-breaking bug
    - fix bug in unsorted PaletteAlpha (encoder was encoding the palette incorrectly)
    - new option --keep-palette; significantly lower memory footprint for 8-bit palette images
    - libflif: direct support for palette (UNTESTED, PROBABLY BUGGY!)
    - new option --chroma-subsample (produces a truncated 4:2:0 FLIF)
    Is there any Win x64 compile of FLIF v0.3?

  18. #166
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    Hello,

    win32 & win64 binaries, not really tested, be warned.
    flif_0.3_win32_win64.7z

    AiZ

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  20. #167
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    FLIF.3.0 commit bf330d4d

    the FLIF DLL's that can be used in xnview. but as far as i can tell, lossless compression did not change.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Windows binaries for 0.3 release.
    "x64 GCC" build is built with GCC 6.3.0, no DLL, but 20% faster encoding in my test.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Rhatushnyak View Post
    Lossless compression of fish.ppm: (the main image on this page converted to ppm)
    Code:
    7720466 ppm       
     381334 png       
     288374 webp044-m6
     251572 bpg095-m9 
     245089 flif01-n-b
     235934 flif01-n-a
     235934 flif01-n  
     188412 bmf-f-s-q9
     177817 gralic111d
    254548 webp 0.6.1 -lossless -q 100 -m 6
    215088 FLIF 0.3 -e -N --effort=100
    156335 paq8im -7
    132504 paq8px_v127 -8

    This newsgroup is dedicated to image compression:
    http://linkedin.com/groups/Image-Compression-3363256

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Rhatushnyak View Post
    254548 webp 0.6.1 -lossless -q 100 -m 6
    215088 FLIF 0.3 -e -N --effort=100
    156335 paq8im -7
    132504 paq8px_v127 -8
    The decoding times are more than an order of magnitude different between these algos. It is good information to document that as one performance parameters. Just taking the density is not informative when the decoding speed differences are so massive.

    The goal of WebP lossless is to be better than PNG on all performance axis. For example, I had an adaptive linear 5x5 neighbourhood (i.e., from past 12 pixels) predictor in WebP lossless development proto at one stage, and it improved photography compression by around 3 %. I left it out from the final version, since it slowed down the decoding by about 70 % -- to a decoding speed worse than libpng (... but it would have still been 10x faster than the next fastest in your list).

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    This is from a chat I had with the guys of http://flif.info/ about the posibility of using FLIF in a solid mode. Just in case anyone find useful the info:

    M-Gonzalo @M-Gonzalo 17:15Hello people! First message here. Nice to meet you
    I wanted to know a little more about FLIF potential to be use in solid compression, if there is any. Solid as in 7z, for example. Is it possible to compress two or more similar images together? Not as an animation or multi-page image but as a solid compressed block. If so, would it lead to improvements in compression ratio? Thanks in advance for any answer.


    Daniel Griffen @dgriffen 17:22
    @M-Gonzalo FLIF is not designed to compress multiple images together. It is designed for single image compression. The only way you could realistically save space is if you abused animation frames and stored each image as a separate frame and extracated them separately later. Even then space would only be saved if the two images were similar enough that prediction was effective.
    To compress multiple items into one compressed object it is best to stick with the general purpose compression methods (rar, 7z, zip, gzip etc.)


    M-Gonzalo @M-Gonzalo 17:30
    Thank you @dgriffen ! That's what I wanted to know.
    It would be interesting to try that, though... Has anybody done it? FLIF ani vs general purpose method...

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    perhaps it could be done for small images, bu making a mosaic.
    anyway, could the compression be further improved for scanned, halftone, images ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pklat View Post
    perhaps it could be done for small images, bu making a mosaic.
    anyway, could the compression be further improved for scanned, halftone, images ?
    Pik lossless (designed and implemented by Alexander Rhatushnyak) might be interesting for lossless photography storage. It is more dense for photographs than anything in its speed category, and is about six times faster than FLIF. There is both an 8 bits and a 16 bits per channel implementation.

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